"Playing out" in Tucson...

[Majik]

So, whether you're in a cover band or an original band, I'm sure you've wondered if your band is negotiating a 'fair deal' when it comes to playing out in Tucson. Now & then it might be okay to play for free, but for the most part, bands should be paid for their performance. Just supplying the equiptment needed to put on a show is worthy of compensation. It would certainly exceed several hundred dollars a night, if equiptment had to be rented by the venue.

The recent trend in the Tucson music scene is more or less 'pay to play' type gigs. Battle Of The Bands is at the top of the list. All of them require you to sell tickets, and some even have an entry fee. Then, "if" there's a split on the ticket sales, it's typically 80/20... with the band getting the short end of the stick. Local bars & clubs featuring music have also adopted the disturbing practice of asking, "How many people can you draw?" That's a question that should be asked of the venue or promoter, not the band. Bar draws the crowd by advertising great food & drink specials, plus live music. Band provides the entertainment. That's my own opinion though... what's yours?

[Joshua Butcher]

I agree totally. Even when you do get paid it is pretty low, try spillting $75 amongst a band of five. We love to play out when we can and thank god for places like the Hut that at least give us drinks as well, but sometimes i wonder if it is worth it at all. We spend a lot of time and money on our art and to have a venue simply ask "how many people can you draw?" without even listening to our music is a little offensive. I would rather play free for a place that has us play because they like our music then play a venue who wants to see if we can pimp out a crowd for them.

People can say it's just business all they want but to us, its a lot more than turning a cheap buck.
JB

[Majik]

it's just business is a piss-poor way of trying to justify a lack of good business ethics. A well established bar or club should have a budget set aside for any and all overhead incurred. Employees, maintenance, par-stock, etc. are all examples of expenditures that a business will need a budget for. Why not entertainment then? Besides, business expense = tax write-off. And getting back to the infamous "draw", I've never heard of a bar owner asking a prospective employee, "How many people can you bring to the club?", and use that to decide whether to hire the person or not. Or, telling a plumbing contractor, "I'll hire you to fix our plumbing if you can bring some people with you." If you can't afford to pay for entertainment, then don't have any. It's ass-backwards to totally rely on the entertainment to bring business to a club.

[Rob]

I couldn't agree more. I came from New Mexico where I started playing shows at the beginning of this year at 2 local bars. One of them offered no drinks,discounts,etc and just let me collect tips which ranged from $5 (thats like 2 drinks) upto $40,it was a total dive and there were fights every night I played I believe. However this other venue was under new management and the guy hooked me up ,said I could do tips or charge a cover and gave me free beer all night long! I played solo mostly but occasionally brought my freind who backed me up on drums and the tips were averaging about$20 and one night when I made 0 in tips the manager gave me $30 for my troubles. If anyone wants info on playing this club its only 3 hrs away from Tucson and its like 20 degrees cooler there too. Anyways I thought coming to Tucson I'd get right into playing at one of the many venues,well its been 21/2 months and I haven't played out yet and without a myspace my odds are not great at getting anything soon. I wouldn't mind opening for "known"local bands just to get exposure but its been slowgoing and seeing this topic I just had to vent.
Cheers!

[BRAD PHIPPS]

This is not a Recent Trend this is how talent and people are treated at this level. My opinion is the local music community doesn't have enough respect for itself to demand payment for the services they provide. I played in a band in this town for 20yrs if we made any money it was because we produced the show...aaahhh! or we demanded the money...which rarely happened.Have you ever stepped on an ant and it runs around in circles all pist off..he will even attack another ant...that's what we have here.Great talent that has been stepped on so much we fight over who gets to play. The local bars and promoters know it. They depend on it. I Believe in order to turn things around the Best most popular bands who have given so much to this community should demand fair pay and refuse to play unless paid. We need to set a pay scale . Been together 2 years have a CD-$250...the scale could go up for more experience and down for less...but no less than $150...and that's still insulting...for that you get 2-10 Equipment movers and roadies for 3 hrs,2-6 Trained instrument specialist's music production for your establishment...and a street team that will invite everyone to your bar or restaurant to purchase your products. Now doesn't that sound like it might be worth $250. Hey I Got another Idea Besides the 100-150 peeps that the band is going to bring,Invest in advertising the show and bring in YOUR OWN DAMB CROWD!!!...Bar owners are lazy here..most of them got in the business so they would have their own place to drink...if that's not the case and your in it for a good time and to make money,THEN JUST PAY THE BANDS FOR THEIR TIME...EVERYONES HAPPY, MAKES MONEY AND HAS A GOOD TIME.
GET UP STAND UP...STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS...Or get someone BIG to do it for you.
Brad

[Mark Beef]

it's on both ends

most of the bars are lazy and stupid and most of the bands are too...as Caddyshack said "You'll get nothing and like it"

[BRAD PHIPPS]

What ever Mark ,Thanks for the reply.Whats stupid is going to work everyday for someone else and not following your passion.Thanks for the insight into the situation and the the excellent Idea for fixing it...by the way evrey band you've ever heard and liked was considered stupid and lazy until someone...probably in another state...was smart enough to push people upwards not tear them down...Probably a Producer who can make anyone sound good and knows how to change your perception and take your money...thats why %50 of the bands you hear live don't sound as good as the album...I wonder what would happen if everyone was proud of the local scene before it was the "in thing" to do...maybe we would discover Gold right in our own back yards.

[Mark Beef]

brad...sorry if you think I was being flippant but I really don't see how my comments negative or positive, on a message board are gonna change the state of the music "scene" anyways...I do think it's dumb that the people who play out generally can't understand why bars or clubs might act the way they do, in the same way I think it's dumb how bars and clubs treat bands. Having done sound AND booked bands and as well as being in bands I have a fuller idea then most people I belive. And when bands can't figure out that they need to promote themselves and their own shows (make flyers, call people, don't play every week at the same place or even area of town) then why should I sympathize or even listen to these complaints. Sorry, but expecting the same crowd of people every tuesday night (maybe Metallica happened to be somebody's friend and made a special apperaance last tuesday) is just asinine and shows you are as out of touch with reality as the bar owners

[Majik]

Mark,
If you've booked and played in bands here as you said, then you should be concerned. Since when, does the guy hosting karaoke on Tuesday night get paid more than a live band on a weekend night? Even a DJ gets paid pretty good just to spin CD's all night. And, do these guys bring their own crowd? I don't know. Whether a band is "good" or not should be the bars decision. As long as you're not deaf, anyone can listen to a band and pretty much say if they suck or not. Sure, know what you might be paying for, and if that can't be determined by listening to a recording, then an audition might be in order. Either way, hire the band... pay the band. Simple as that.

[Mark Beef]

If you've booked and played in bands here as you said, then you should be concerned

well my priorities and yours I imagine are different. I play in bands cause I enjoy it and don't have any illusions I'm gonna make it big (or even make money at it). Plus I'm really only interested in getting money for touring bands who need it to get to the next town, not for the cover band who needs to buy a new smoke machine.

Since when, does the guy hosting karaoke on Tuesday night get paid more than a live band on a weekend night?

since always that I know of...most people would rather go to kareoke then go see some band they have no idea who they are (also I'm primarily talking about clubs and shows where there is a cover at the door or ticket sales...you know so that's how the bands get paid...no crowd no money for the bands)

Even a DJ gets paid pretty good just to spin CD's all night. And, do these guys bring their own crowd?

if they're getting paid well they bring their own crowd...nobody is getting paid a thousand bucks to do whatever in front of an empty club/bar

Whether a band is "good" or not should be the bars decision

ah but that is so subjective...there could be the most excellent band of people covering jimmy buffet and live but since I hate that music I would think they were "bad" where as a fan of said music would think they were "good"

As long as you're not deaf, anyone can listen to a band and pretty much say if they suck or not. Sure, know what you might be paying for, and if that can't be determined by listening to a recording, then an audition might be in order. Either way, hire the band... pay the band. Simple as that.

you'd be amazed... I've had people come up to me, while a band is playing and ask me who said band was (reasonable), what kind of music they played (um...you're listening to it just like me) and if they were any good (seriously)

like I said If you are HIRING a band then you should pay said band and said band should make sure they have all this stuff worked out PRIOR to playing and nothing is assumed....IF however you want to play at some club on some night and are the one emailing the club ASKING to play for months and they add you to a show a in a month PLEASE DO NOT completely drop the ball on promoting your own show (just in case) show up at said show, ask the club how many people they usually have on this night, play, and expect a couple hundred in compensation

it just makes you and your fellow band mates look like nincompoops

[Shell Shock]

HI there,

Well, most of my friends and I have been playing here in town, or elsewhere for over 25 years at least. I used to have a saying which doesn't apply too much anymore...but should!

"It is the Bar's job to get them here.......It's our job to keep them here!"

We still play out; however, we are seeing a slow down all across the board. Between the D.U.I. laws and number of police out looking....people aren't going out like they used to. (Can't really blame them either!) I also think, at least for our band which plays classic 70's rock, that our "target crowd" for our style of music is getting older and has other priorities in their lives now.

Just my thoughts 2 cents
Steve Shell
Shell Shock

[Majik]

Not only is it a great saying Steve, but it's most likely a passage from The Barkeeps Bible that reads slightly different. "It's the bars job to get them here, and the bars job to keep them here." The D.U.I situation is a point well taken, as I'm sure a lot of us know first hand. It still doesn't relieve the bar owner of his/her one goal... to sell as much alcohol as possible. I don't know much about the bar business, but what I do know is, I can buy a case of beer for about $18 at the supermarket, which is about the same price as 6 beers at a bar. Uhhh. 400% markup on a drink? For that price, I'd like a ride to & from the bar, and there better be some chaser when I get there. *hint* maybe pay for my taxi? *hint* Not sure what the solution is, but one thing for sure is, it's not the bands fault.

[Mark Beef]

how do you think it's the bartenders job to get the people into the bar? Is it the mechanic's job to get the cars into the garage? The doctor's job to get the people into the hospital? the soldiers job to get the people into the war?

most bartenders aren't the bar owners either or have anything to do with what band is playing